Curse

draxynnic · Sep 10, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

There are two faults in your argument (edit - the reasons your logic is faulty is):
1) The Hall of Monuments is voluntary
2) The linkage between HoM and GW2 is unknown

The interesting part of your argument is that your conclusion is correct. The funny thing is that all of this flies in the face of logic.

The one thing that we all know is that GRIND in GW is completely voluntary:
1) You can easily obtain max weapons and armor as a casual player
2) There is no material benefit to titles, with the limited exception of those that reduce pick breakage and improve salvage chances.

The final point of interest is that very few people ever even look at any others' Halls. I looked at a friend who is a GWAMM once. Whoop-de-doo.

The funny thing is that the gamers are being driven by their own psyches to grind, then blaming Anet for requiring it. That is a false premise (as shown above). It's just that most gamers are fairly egocentric and want to have a perceived advantage over others, even if it is only bling.

While largely I agree with you, you've missed the titles that affect the power of skills. The August update made them more powerful at lower ranks, but it is another material benefit... and, IMO, more important than pick breakage and salvage chances.

tmakinen · Sep 10, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

The only objective of GW is filling HoM? That's news to me since I filled it soon after the release of EotN and have had all kinds of objectives after that - and still have.

Also, that RMT prices have gone up is primarily caused by ANet's effectiveness in banishing bots, and that's a good thing.

wilebill · Sep 10, 2008, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Do HOM stuff or don't. Your choice.

GW has a huge amount of things to do. Set your own goals.

If you are not having fun with GW, then go play something else that is fun.

Avarre · Sep 10, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

If you want the benefits of HoM/titles, grind. If not, don't. You can still play the game either way.

ANet knows people love grind, and they'll keep adding more.

slowerpoke · Sep 10, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

im not sure when a monument is considered 'complete', if the 5 display slots are filled or if no more can be added

and what exactly is the required koabd level, 4 or 5?

Hyper.nl · Sep 10, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I like the Hall of Monuments. I like to have certain targets for which I play. I like to collect trophies for achievements that were hard to reach or took quite an investment of time. I think the Hall of Monuments is the best addition that GW:EN brought.

Of course, everything should be optional. You can do it without grinding or the HoM and remain competitive. But for the players who like it, let them have it.

tmakinen · Sep 10, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

what exactly is the required koabd level, 4 or 5?

Evidence suggests that r4 is enough if you've got all the monuments filled, without that r5 is needed.

Of course, completionists cannot accept anything less than r6 and make preparations just in case r7 should be introduced (I certainly hope not, I wouldn't be looking forward to maxing Unlucky

).

upier · Sep 10, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

GW has a huge amount of things to do.

It doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

If you are not having fun with GW, then go play something else that is fun.

This I agree with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siadena

If it wasn't for the grind, people would have stopped playing long ago. There would be nothing to do and/or look forward to after you complete all campaigns. Yes, it can be tedious at time, but thank god for titles!

No.
If it wasn't for grind and A.net wouldn't have put in better alternatives - people would have quit.
Grind is in the game because it's probably the cheapest option to keep people interested.

Talonz · Sep 10, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

I wouldn't necessarily attribute the inflation of cash-for-gold to supposed "decreased drop rates." Rather, it'd be more likely because of the difficulty it is for bots and underpaid foreign workers to farm the gold and resell it. All the measures they've implemented now to end bot farming and gold selling have dampened their productivity. Loot scaling, repetitive farming penalties, 24 hour trade and drop limits. The good farming spots and builds usually require at least two campaigns if not more. In end, the less gold for cash there is to go around, the more expensive it becomes in real world cash. It's not an accurate reflection of the in-game economy.

And as others have pointed out, it's your choice whether or not you want to do the grind fests.

Title and hall grinds are added there for the players who want it. You're complaining that it exists, but would you lose anything if it didn't exist? I wouldn't think so! I'd say be thankful that Guild Wars rarely forces any sort of legitimate grind on a player who just wants to play through the game normally, as many RPG's tend to do.

Most of the title grinds aren't that bad, either, compared to how some other games make the player grind.

Test Me · Sep 10, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

@OP

Of course it has become so.

And the rationale is *very* simple. Imagine their product manager (or whoever takes decisions): "we don't want to spend any more money on GW1 at all, but we want to keep players busy while we work on GW2".

So of course they gave us the HoM to fill that would apparently give you some benefits in gw2. Which is the perfect idea: if you start filling it, even if you don't finish you'll have a ton of stuff to do (as you mentioned), and it is a perfect guarantee for them that if you have been filling the HoM you will buy their GW2.

However we have no clue what the HoM may unlock in GW2 (if anything interesting at all), and people that have spent the 4.5k of play hours to fill it up may find that they've done so for nothing really interesting in GW2... maybe just a hat or something.

So I find ANet to be really lame on this one, at least if they want people to constantly grind for thousands of hours, they should tell us what exactly it is that we get for it!

Knowing that may make you fill only parts of HoM that you find most interesting in the benefit you get in GW2.

Anyway... I am not much of a PvP-er, I like to play together with other people, not against other people. And as much as some people of this community refuse to see it, that aspect of the game is dead.

I am trying to find parties to do dungeons or missions, but all outposts are dead silent. The last thing I've done with a full human party was a DoA run, but now with the Ursan nerf they fixed that too. GoA is now just a dead silent outpost as all the others.

And on a side note, I don't care how good or bad Ursan was before, all I care was that I was playing with full human parties and now there's no such thing anymore. And I thought that GW was supposed to be encouraging human parties/cooperation... apparently they don't really understand the effects of their nerfs. Or at least, not on the PvE world.

tmakinen · Sep 10, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Of course it has become so.

And the rationale is *very* simple. Imagine their product manager (or whoever takes decisions): "we don't want to spend any more money on GW1 at all, but we want to keep players busy while we work on GW2".

This proposition completely ignores the fact that GW doesn't collect monthly fees. Busy players don't bring money to ANet, they only spend it through server maintenance and administrator salaries. It has been officially stated that ANet intended people to buy the game, play it for a while and then drop it, and that the experience should be fun enough to entice people to eventually buy the next installation as well. Grindy objectives were added to the game because ANet found out that a large portion of the population actually wanted to grind and the added grind was - and still is - a completely optional part of the game unlike in typical MMOs where grind is the game.

BL1ZZARD · Sep 10, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42

i agree thatts become very girnd orientated, but i dont think the drop rates are too low at all. If they were low there would be nothing to strive for.

rexalex · Sep 10, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

The fact is the drop rates have always been too low.

I've never been problem with drop before LS!

Test Me · Sep 10, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Of course, grind has been added on players request. And we know that because there has been a survey asking people their opinions and 70% of them said they want to grind more. Right?

So cool how marketing departments can brainwash people.

Anyway the deal was to release new content each 6 months and that should have been how they make their money. Anyway I am not judging their financial results, which probably look pretty good...

But the fact remains. Grind was "introduced" to keep people busy to counter the lack of new content. And it wasn't even a new thing, it was there for a long time. Why did it surface just now?

Because there is nothing else left to do.

Oleg · Sep 10, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

It's only a grind because you want everything NOW. Just play the game and a lot of the things in HoM will come, slowly (so to speak).

You want to max every title in the minimum time, it will involve grinding. Simple as that.

I had 4 elite sets of armour on one char before HoM was an issue. I don't feel any great urge to rush out and buy another set. I upgraded my heroes by doing challenge missions because they were fun. I don't really like destroyer weapons so I won't be buying 11 of them.

I have a pile of titles mainly beecause they were either fun (like vanquishing or guardian, or, oddly, cartographer) or because it was a mindless for of relaxation (still better than TV).

I'll probbaly hit 30 titles maxed by the end of the year and then what? I'll jump on one of my other 12 chars, do PvP or just stuff about. I can't imagine why anyone would play a game doing things they don't enjoy. Seems pretty counter productive.

Tijger · Sep 10, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

GW is a grindfest because the devs gave in to the people that want to grind. GW is staying a grindfest because by now they don't care otherwise and want WoW's numbers.

It would be nice if there were things that could be done for the HoM that don't require extensive grinding, but I guess that'd be too much to ask at this point.

There's absolutely no need to grind imho, its all optional.

Wildi · Sep 10, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Monument of Fellowship: Upgrade armor on 25 Heroes and attain a 20th level Imperial Phoenix, Black Widow Spider, Black Moa. This, with the new hero MOX will gain 30 statues available for display.
Monument of Devotion: Obtain and dedicate 20 minipets (at a cost of 1 to 100k plus ecto for those birthday presents that do not randomly duplicate those you already have.)
Monument of Valor: Obtain and place 11 Destroyer Weapons at a cost of approximately 28k a piece to manufacture, or 308k. (Graciously extensive hours of play to obtain Torment Weapons may substitute.)
Monument of Resilience: Obtain and place a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 17 elite armors at a cost of 75k plus materials usually speaking. So, potentially another 400 to 1,350 k or more.
Monument to Honor: Including the title tracks Drunkard, Sweet Tooth, Party Animal, and Skill Hunter will run 9,561,400g less a some rare drops. Then there is LDoA which at 50g a session costs about 21, 850 in bribing gate hookers to get in to the Northlands so you can work on it.

all this stuff is pointless, it does not improve your skill nor your character, this is optional grind for self satisfaction

romeus petrus · Sep 10, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Here's a crazy idea: GW became Grind Wars when titles were introduced, and got even worse when massivley overpowered PvE skills were linked to title grinding. Remove titles, problem solved.

imnotyourmother · Sep 10, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

some day i will fill my hall. More grinding for me

EPO Bot · Sep 10, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Remove titles, problem solved.

Can you even begin to imagine what would happen in this community if Anet suddenly removed all titles completely?